User: junkhound, Location: Renton, WA
Asked on: Monday, December 23, 2024 at 8:28 pm EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 6:37 am EST
Question: So, widow lady friend at church asked an engineer friend to check it out, he could find nothing, so asked if I could check why her upstairs bath lost power.NO tripped breakers. So, we spent 3 hours trying to find open connections.All voltages and connections in panel check out good, tightened all just to be sure.No GFCI trips. Only GFCI single ended in bathroom.Opened and checked 8 outlet and light switch boxes, nothing loose. All show no voltage black to white NOR black to ground.What is strange is that there is no 120 from black to white OR to ground, --- also ground to white shows open circuit.So, what could cause both open white and black wire. Ground wires all good, test to known good ground checked with a long test lead, ground wires OK.Her yard is torn up, known to be by local pack of raccoons..... hmm, wonder if raccoons got in somewhere and ate thru a cable without tripping the breaker.Any other possibilities other than 2 wire nuts or other connections coming loose at same time?PS: I'd left my RF circuit tracer in the other truck, will need to try that to find break.
Okay, this is a puzzle! You've done a solid job so far. Here's a breakdown of potential culprits, prioritizing based on likelihood and ease of checking, along with considerations given your situation
Most Likely Culprits & Next Steps
1. The "Mystery" Junction Box
This is the most likely scenario, given you've checked so many accessible points.
The Hunt
Really, really think hard about any possible locations in the circuit run. Crawlspaces, attics (even partially finished areas), behind kitchen cabinets, access panels (sometimes hidden behind pictures or mirrors). Think about the path the wire would likely take. Even a random light fixture or outlet box in the downstairs can be a junction box. You're looking for a box where the cable serving the bathroom makes a transition.
Why Likely
It only takes ONE failed connection in the middle of the circuit to cause a complete loss of power to everything downstream. This box can be anywhere in the circuit.
How to Find
The RF tracer is a great idea. Follow the wire route from the breaker box. Follow the wire route from a working outlet that's likely the same run, look for a splice box.2.
Cable Damage (Raccoons or Other Cause)
The raccoon scenario is plausible, especially given the yard damage.
The Hunt
Visually inspect any exposed cable. Focus on areas where the cable enters or exits the house, passes through crawlspaces or attics, or is run along exterior walls. Raccoons often target the point where a cable enters a structure.3.
Failed Splice in a Hard-to-Reach Area
The Hunt
Consider areas behind appliances, under sinks, or other places that are difficult to access without moving things. Sometimes, a splice is made in a less-than-ideal location.4.
Problem at the Breaker Itself
The Re-Check
You said you checked the panel, but go back and really scrutinize the connections at the breaker. A loose connection here can sometimes be intermittent. Try wiggling the wires with the breaker off, retighten, and check again.
Less Likely, But Still Possible5. Failed Device (but Affecting the Entire Circuit)
How
It's rare, but a device could fail in a way that effectively opens the entire circuit. For example, a very old or damaged switch or outlet with internal corrosion could fail open.
The Hunt
Since you've checked most devices, this is less likely, but don't completely rule it out.6.
Double-Tapped Neutral (or Hot) at a Working Outlet
The Idea
It's possible (though unlikely, since it would likely affect more than just this bathroom) that a neutral (or hot) wire is double-tapped at another outlet and one of those connections has failed.
The Hunt
Inspect the wiring at a few nearby outlets (likely on the same circuit), looking for two wires landed under the same screw.
Why Your Readings Make Sense (Given the Situation) No Voltage Between Black/White and Black/Ground
This indicates a complete break in the hot (black) wire somewhere upstream. The circuit is not being energized.
Open Circuit Between White/Ground
This also points to a break in the neutral (white) wire.
Ground Wires Checking Out
This is good, as it means your grounding system is intact.
Action Plan
RF Tracer
Use that tracer! It's your best bet for pinpointing the break without tearing into walls.2.
Systematically Check the Most Likely Culprits
Start with the "Mystery Junction Box" and then Cable Damage.3.
Re-check the Breaker
Do a double-check of the connections at the breaker.4.
Consider Device Failures (as a last resort)
If all else fails, start methodically replacing devices, starting with the most likely culprits.
Important Safety Notes
Work De-Energized
Always turn off the breaker before working on any wiring.
Test Before Touching
Use a non-contact voltage tester to verify that wires are de-energized before handling them.
Call a Pro: If you're uncomfortable working with electrical wiring, call a qualified electrician. It's better to be safe than sorry!Good luck with the hunt! Let me know what you find. Flag for review