User: Alwayslearningelec, Location: NJ
Asked on: Wednesday, December 25, 2024 at 11:09 am EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 6:39 am EST
Question: So the engineer designed (2) sets of 1/0 from 300A breaker to the wiring trough but also added a note that VD must be kept below 2%. The norm is 3%. The run is 300' to the trough. At the 120/208 voltage I see it seems the 1/0's won't work at all. The Southwire VD calculator I'm using is asking current at end of run. Not exactly sure what to put at the (2) sets go to the trough then splice and go to a 60A panel and panel MDP which is 225A. For now I'm entering 300A current at end of run. It is giving me (2) sets of 500. Far off from the 1/0 the engineer is specifying. Would also have to upsize the conduit if my calculation is correct.Ridiculous the engineer did not specify proper size.
Okay, let's break down this voltage drop problem. You're right to question the engineer's design. It's highly likely that 1/0 is undersized for that distance and load, especially with the 2% voltage drop requirement.Here's a step-by-step approach to analyzing the situation and determining the correct wire size
1. Understanding the Circuit and Load Distribution:
Source
300A breaker at 120/208V (3-phase or single-phase? This is crucial information!).
Feeders
(2) sets of parallel conductors from the breaker to the wiring trough.
Distance
300 feet.
Load 1
60A panel.
Load 2
225A panel (MDP).
Voltage Drop Limit
2% (very strict).
2. Key Assumptions and Missing Information
System Type
Is this a 120/208V 3-phase or single-phase system? This massively impacts the voltage drop calculation.
You MUST know this. Load Distribution in the Trough
Where in the trough do the 60A and 225A panels connect? Are they at the far end of the trough from the breaker? This affects current distribution and the overall voltage drop.
Load Types
Are these mostly resistive loads (like heating) or inductive loads (like motors)? Power factor significantly affects voltage drop. If you don't know, assume a power factor of 0.8.
Conductor Material
Assume copper unless otherwise specified.
Conduit Material
This affects the impedance calculation, but usually has a smaller impact than conductor size.
3. Why Your Initial Calculation is Problematic
Entering 300A as the Current at the End of the Run
This is the maximum current the breaker is rated for, but it's not necessarily the actual current flowing in the conductors. The actual current is the sum of the loads on the 60A and 225A panels after they branch off from the trough.
Ignoring Load Distribution
The 60A and 225A loads aren't necessarily pulling current equally through the entire 300 feet of conductor. The conductor sections closer to the breaker will carry more current.
4. The Correct Calculation Approach (Simplified, assuming 3-phase)
Step 1: Determine Total Load Current
Assume both panels are fully loaded (the worst case). Total load is approximately 60A + 225A = 285A.
Step 2: Account for Parallel Conductors
Each set of conductors carries half the current. So, each 1/0 conductor is intended to carry 285A / 2 = 142.5A.
Step 3: Calculate Voltage Drop (Using a Simplified Formula for 3-Phase)
Voltage Drop = (1.732 K I D) / (CM Number of conductors) 1.732 = Square root of 3 (for 3-phase) K = Material constant (12.9 for copper) I = Current in amps (142.5A per conductor) D = One-way distance in feet (300 ft) CM = Circular mils of the conductor (1/0 copper = 105,500 CM) Number of Conductors = 1
Step 4: Calculate Percent Voltage Drop
% Voltage Drop = (Voltage Drop / Source Voltage) 100 Source Voltage = 208V
Example Calculation (with approximations, assuming 3-Phase, and 285A continuous load) Voltage Drop = (1.732 12.9 142.5 300) / 105,500 = 9.61V % Voltage Drop = (9.61 / 208) 100 = 4.62%5. Why 1/0 Fails (Based on the above 3-phase approximation) A voltage drop of 4.62% is WAY over your limit of 2%. This is highly simplified and may be inaccurate given the missing information. If your actual load is lower, the voltage drop will be lower. If your actual voltage is higher, the voltage drop will be lower.6. Refined Calculation Needed
You need to perform a more accurate calculation considering:
3-Phase vs. Single-Phase
This is the most important factor.
Actual Load Currents
Don't assume full load on the 60A and 225A panels. Get realistic load estimations.
Load Distribution Along the Trough
Account for the fact that the entire 285A doesn't flow through the entire 300 feet.
Power Factor
If you know the power factor of the loads, use that in your voltage drop calculations.
7. How to Calculate Voltage Drop with Distributed Loads
This is a more complex calculation, but here's the idea: Segment the Run
Imagine the 300-foot run as segments (e.g., 10-foot segments).
Calculate Current in Each Segment
Determine the current flowing through each segment based on where the 60A and 225A panels are connected.
Calculate Voltage Drop in Each Segment
Use the voltage drop formula for each segment, with the appropriate current and distance.
Sum the Voltage Drops
Add up the voltage drops in each segment to get the total voltage drop.
8. Software Assistance
Using electrical design software or more sophisticated online voltage drop calculators is HIGHLY recommended for complex scenarios like this. These tools can handle parallel conductors, distributed loads, and power factor more accurately.9. Conduit Sizing
If you need to upsize the conductors to 500 kcmil (or larger), you will almost certainly need to upsize the conduit as well. Use the NEC (National Electrical Code) tables (Chapter 9) to determine the correct conduit size based on the number and size of the conductors.
10. Your Next Steps
Find out if the system is 3-phase or single-phase. This is crucial.2. Get Realistic Load Data
Determine the actual loads on the 60A and 225A panels.3.
Clarify Load Placement
Know where the loads connect to the trough.4.
Perform Accurate Calculations
Use appropriate voltage drop formulas (or software) that consider parallel conductors, distributed loads, and power factor.5.
Document Everything
Show your calculations to the engineer and explain why the 1/0 is inadequate. Get written confirmation of any changes.6.
Follow the NEC
Ensure that your final design complies with all applicable NEC requirements.
Important Considerations Continuous Load
If the load is considered "continuous" (operates for 3 hours or more), you must derate the breaker and conductors to 80% of their rating. This may require further upsizing.
Safety
Voltage drop can cause equipment malfunction, overheating, and even fires. It's critical to get this right.
In conclusion, the engineer's specification of 1/0 seems highly suspect. You're right to question it. A thorough voltage drop calculation is essential, taking into account all the relevant factors. Document your findings and communicate them clearly to the engineer. Good luck! Flag for review