User: nthakur875, Location: Van Buren, Ohio
Asked on: Tuesday, January 14, 2025 at 10:02 pm EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 7:20 am EST
Question: Hello all!Background:We have 4 pastures, each with their own Free Standing 16" Nelson Waterer (700 series). This makes 4 free standing waterers. All are hooked up to water and electrical to our main horse barn. For ease of reference the 4 pastures will be referred to as Pastures: A, B, C, and D. (All hardware, new and old, has been ordered directly from Nelson)Pastures A, B and C are on the North side of our property, and are roughly, 50, 150, and 350 ft (respectively) from the barn where the electrical runs to. Additionally, they are all on the same circuit, a single 15 amp breaker. Pasture D (The south side of the property) is roughly 500ft from the barn, and is also on it's own 15amp breaker.We are experiencing random breaker tripping from the Pasture A,B,C, breaker.We have had an electrician out to look at it, several times, and he has done the following:Changed all 4 heating elements/junction (handy) boxes/thermostats. (with brand new hardware).Replaced both breakers, to new 15amp breakers. (Non-GFCI)Did a "line trace" on each to confirm that the waterers are the only things on their respective circuits. (I'm skeptical about this...)Ensured all wires in the electrical box have good contact, good copper, and are in good condition.After speaking with Dave, at Nelson, he said that it is usually a GFCI issue. (This is not the case with ours, since there are no GFCIs). He also assured us that the plumbing to the units (its old, and definitely could use replacing) is "almost assuredly" not causing the tripping. (I'm skeptical of this too)The electrician isn't worth much... (its hard to find good people now-a-days)...My electrical knowledge is limited, but not nothing. And I'm damn handy, well-read, and well-researched.I don't know what to do, or what to check. And we are at a loss.We have been operating these waterers for the past 8 years, without this issue in the past. We have kept up pretty well on replacing worn parts (with the exception of the plumbing for the valves and such...)And it makes me think to disconnect all power lines, and pull new ones through at a lower gauge wire. (I'm not sure what gauge the waterers are on, but the wire going into the box looks to be 12g) This would NOT be ideal... as it would be highly costly, and I don't know if bigger wire would fit in the conduit..Could it be a wire gauge issue? (How could this be, if we hadn't experienced this in the past...almost decade?)Could something have happened underground, that we don't see? (if so, how do we check this...((without tearing up the ground)) )Please help with any suggestions. Thank you!
Okay, this is a frustrating situation! Let's break down the problem and explore some troubleshooting steps. Since you've already addressed the obvious electrical components, we need to think a bit outside the box.
Understanding the Problem
Random Tripping
The key here is "random." If it tripped predictably (e.g., every time the heaters turned on), it would point to a simple overload. The random nature suggests an intermittent fault.
Past Performance
The fact that this didn't happen for 8 years is crucial. Something has changed.
Potential Causes and Troubleshooting Steps
Voltage Drop (Likely Culprit): Given the distances and the fact that it's multiple heaters on one circuit, voltage drop is a prime suspect. Theory
As the distance from the power source increases, voltage decreases due to wire resistance. When the heaters all try to draw power at the same time, the voltage at the end of the line (Pasture C) might drop significantly. This causes the heaters to draw more current to compensate and maintain their heat output, potentially exceeding the breaker's capacity.
Testing
Measure Voltage Under Load
This is critical. Use a multimeter to measure the voltage at the heater's junction box in Pastures A, B, and C while the heaters are actively heating. Do this with all three waterers connected and see what the voltage is. Compare it to the voltage at the breaker panel. A significant drop (more than 5-10%) indicates a voltage drop problem. Do the same at Pasture D for comparison (it is less likely to be having this issue, due to being on its own breaker.)
Solution (If Voltage Drop is the Issue)
Increase Wire Gauge
This is the most effective solution. Larger wire provides less resistance, reducing voltage drop. However, you need to ensure the new wire fits in the conduit and the junction boxes. You might be able to pull larger gauge wire through the existing conduit, but it will be difficult and may require special lubricants.
Split the Circuit
Divide the Pasture A, B, and C waterers onto separate circuits. This would require running new wiring from the barn to each pasture. This is a significant undertaking.
Lower Wattage Heaters
Replace the existing heating elements with lower wattage versions. This will reduce the current draw and potentially alleviate the voltage drop problem. However, it may not provide sufficient heat in extremely cold weather.
Dedicated Transformer
Install a small step-down transformer closer to the pastures to boost the voltage. This is a more complex solution.2.
Loose Connections (Despite the Electrician's Check)
Theory
Even though the electrician checked the connections, they could still be loose or corroded. A loose connection creates resistance, which can cause heat and intermittent tripping.
Testing
Carefully Inspect ALL Connections
Go back and meticulously check every connection in the circuit: At the breaker panel. In the junction boxes at each waterer. Inside the waterer itself (where the heater connects).
Look for
Discoloration, corrosion, loose screws, or signs of arcing (burnt wires).
Tighten EVERYTHING
Use a screwdriver to ensure all screws are tight. Be careful not to overtighten and strip the screws.
Use Electrical Contact Cleaner
Clean the connections with a good quality electrical contact cleaner to remove any corrosion or contaminants.
Solution
Replace Suspect Connections
If you find any damaged or corroded wires or connectors, replace them immediately.
Use Anti-Oxidant Paste
When re-making connections, apply a small amount of anti-oxidant paste (like Noalox) to prevent future corrosion.3.
Ground Fault (Even Without GFCI)
Theory
A ground fault occurs when current leaks from a hot wire to a grounded surface (e.g., the metal casing of the waterer). Even without a GFCI breaker, a significant ground fault can trip a standard breaker.
Testing
Megger Test (Insulation Resistance Test)
This is the best way to check for ground faults. A megger (insulation resistance tester) applies a high-voltage DC current to the wiring and measures the resistance between the wires and ground. Low resistance indicates a ground fault. This test should be performed by a qualified electrician.
Continuity Test (With Power OFF)
Disconnect the wires at the breaker panel and the waterer. Use a multimeter to check for continuity between the hot wire and the ground wire, and the neutral wire and the ground wire. There should be NO continuity. If there is, you have a ground fault.
Solution
Locate and Repair the Fault
Once you've identified the ground fault, you need to find the source and repair it. This might involve replacing a damaged wire, a faulty heating element, or a cracked insulator.4.
Water Ingress (Water Getting into Electrical Components)
Theory
Water can seep into the junction boxes, conduit, or the waterer itself, causing a short circuit or ground fault.
Testing
Carefully Inspect for Water
Check all junction boxes and the waterer itself for signs of water. Look for rust, corrosion, or water stains.
Ensure Proper Sealing
Make sure all junction boxes are properly sealed and that the conduit connections are watertight.
Solution
Seal All Entry Points
Use silicone caulk or electrical sealant to seal any potential water entry points.
Replace Damaged Components
If any electrical components have been damaged by water, replace them.5.
Rodent Damage
Theory
Rodents can chew on the insulation of the underground wires, causing short circuits or ground faults.
Testing (Difficult Without Digging)
Visual Inspection (Limited)
Carefully inspect any exposed wiring for signs of rodent damage.
Megger Test (As Mentioned Above)
A megger test can help detect rodent damage, even if you can't see it.
Solution
Replace Damaged Wiring
If you suspect rodent damage, you'll need to replace the damaged section of wiring. This might involve digging up the underground conduit.
Rodent Control
Implement rodent control measures to prevent future damage.6.
Other Appliances on the Same Circuit
Theory
Despite what the electrician says, there might be other appliances or devices connected to the same circuit that are drawing power intermittently and contributing to the overload.
Testing
Turn Everything OFF
Turn off every breaker in your barn and house, except the breaker for the waterers. Then, systematically turn on each breaker one at a time and monitor the current draw using a clamp meter at the breaker panel. See if any other circuits show a significant current draw when the waterer circuit is active.
Unplug Everything
As a test, unplug everything in the barn and surrounding area to see if the tripping stops.
Specific Questions for Your Situation
What is the wattage of each heating element? This is critical for calculating the total current draw.
What gauge wire is currently used for the underground runs? You mentioned 12 gauge going into the box, but what about the long runs from the barn?
What is the voltage at the breaker panel when the waterers are NOT running? This will give you a baseline voltage to compare against when the heaters are on.
Were the thermostats replaced with the exact same specifications? Could there be some variance causing the heater to stay on longer?
Recommendations
Voltage Drop Testing
Start by measuring the voltage at the heaters under load. This is the most likely cause, given the distances.2.
Meticulous Connection Check
Go back and carefully check all connections.3.
Megger Test
If voltage drop and connection issues are ruled out, consider having a qualified electrician perform a megger test to check for ground faults.4.
Document Everything: Keep a detailed log of when the breaker trips, the weather conditions, and any other relevant information. This can help you identify patterns and narrow down the problem.This is a process of elimination. Start with the simplest and most likely causes and work your way towards the more complex ones. Good luck! This is definitely solvable. Flag for review