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Topic: Wire sizing

User: Redeagle91, Location: Carrollton

Asked on: Wednesday, January 22, 2025 at 10:05 am EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 7:37 am EST

Question: I was on a jobsite and I came across this junction box with a terminal block in it. There are 3-480v 15 amp Blower coil units that are being fed from a 480v 50 amp breaker with #8 wire . It comes to this box and changes wire size to 3 sets of #12. Leaves there and goes to 3 separate 30 amp fused disconnects with 15 amp fuses in them. Should the wire from the terminal block to the disconnects be rated for 50 amps

Okay, let's break this down to figure out if the wiring is correct and meets code. There are several potential issues here.

The Short Answer: No, the wire from the terminal block to the disconnects does not necessarily need to be rated for 50 amps. However, there are several potential violations that need further investigation and likely correction.

Here's a detailed explanation of why and what the potential issues are

Understanding the Circuit Components
480V 50A Breaker

This breaker protects the entire circuit
up to the point where the wire size is reduced.

#8 Wire

Assuming it's copper and properly insulated (THHN is common), #8 copper wire is typically rated for 50 amps (check ampacity charts for your specific conductor insulation type and installation method).

Junction Box with Terminal Block

This is where the #8 wire is split into multiple smaller conductors. The terminal block itself must be rated for the voltage and current it is carrying.


#12 Wire

#12 copper wire is typically rated for 20 amps (again, check ampacity charts based on the conductor and installation).

30A Fused Disconnects with 15A Fuses

These disconnects, each with a 15A fuse, are intended to protect the individual blower coil units.


Blower Coil Units (15A)

Each unit draws 15 amps under normal operation.

Potential Code Violations and Concerns
1. Overcurrent Protection and Tap Rules

This is the biggest area of concern.

NEC 240.21 (Branch-Circuit Conductors)

You

cannot
simply run a smaller wire (#12) from a larger overcurrent device (50A breaker) without proper overcurrent protection at the point where the wire size changes unless you meet the "tap rules" outlined in the NEC. Tap Rules (Simplified)

The tap rules allow you to use smaller conductors for a portion of the circuit, but they come with strict requirements:

Length Limitations

The length of the #12 wire cannot exceed certain limits (typically 10 or 25 feet, depending on the specific rule and the overall length of the circuit). You'd need to consult the NEC and measure the wire lengths to verify compliance.


Ampacity Requirements

The tap conductor (the #12 wire) must have an ampacity: Not less than 1/3 of the rating of the overcurrent device protecting the feeder circuit (50A breaker). In this case, 50A / 3 = 16.67A. #12 wire has an ampacity of 20A so this requirement is met. Not less than the sum of the maximum load to be served by the tap conductors. #12 is rated for 20a, the 15a fuses and blower motor are within tolerance.

Overcurrent Protection at the Load

Each tap conductor (the #12 wire)
must terminate in an overcurrent protective device (the 30A fused disconnects with 15A fuses) that does not exceed the ampacity of the tap conductor (20A for #12).

This is the area that needs very close scrutiny. The 15A fuses in the disconnects are likely intended to protect the blower motors, which is good.
Enclosure

The tap conductors must be enclosed in a raceway or otherwise protected from physical damage.2.

#12 Wire Ampacity

While #12 wire is typically rated for 20 amps, its ampacity may need to be derated based on:

Temperature Rating of Terminations

Equipment is often rated for 60°C or 75°C terminations. You must use the ampacity column in the NEC corresponding to the lowest temperature rating of any terminations in the circuit.

Number of Conductors in a Raceway

If the #12 wires are bundled together in a raceway or cable, their ampacity may need to be derated if there are more than three current-carrying conductors in the same raceway (NEC 310.15). The neutral of a 480V system is not considered current carrying. Ground wires are also excluded.


Ambient Temperature

High ambient temperatures can also require derating.3.

Fused Disconnect Size

The 30A fused disconnects are likely permissible because the fuses are sized to protect the 15A blower coil units. The disconnect size refers to the maximum amperage the switch/disconnect is capable of handling.

Steps to Take
1. Measure the Length of the #12 Wires

This is critical for determining if the tap rules are being met.2.

Determine the Wiring Method

How are the #12 wires routed from the junction box to the disconnects? Are they in conduit, cable, or some other method?3.

Identify Termination Temperature Ratings

Check the equipment labels (breaker, disconnects, terminal block) to determine the temperature ratings of their terminations.4.

Count Current-Carrying Conductors

Count the number of current-carrying conductors in any raceways or cables.5.

Consult the NEC

Use the NEC ampacity tables (NEC 310.15 and associated tables) to determine the correct ampacity of the #12 wire
after any derating factors are applied.6.

Verify Overcurrent Protection

Ensure that the 15A fuses in the disconnects are sized appropriately to protect the blower coil units and the #12 wire. The disconnects themselves must also be properly rated for the voltage and amperage.7.

Consider Alternatives



Install a Subpanel

A subpanel with correctly sized breakers for each blower coil unit would be a much cleaner and code-compliant solution. This would eliminate the need for tap rules.

Run #8 Wire to Each Disconnect

Another option is to replace the #12 wire with #14 so long as the total length from the breaker to the motor is less than 25 feet, in a factory setting.

In Summary


The setup you described is
potentially unsafe and likely violates the NEC. The use of smaller conductors (#12) on a larger overcurrent device (50A breaker) requires strict adherence to the tap rules. Do not assume that this installation is safe. A qualified electrician should inspect the installation, perform the necessary calculations, and make any necessary corrections to ensure that it meets code.DISCLAIMER: I am an AI chatbot and cannot provide electrical code advice. This information is for educational purposes only. Always consult with a qualified electrician for any electrical work.* Flag for review

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