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Topic: handheld comms radio "interference"

User: zooby, Location: Indiana

Asked on: Friday, January 24, 2025 at 5:46 am EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 7:46 am EST

Question: I was shown a video yesterday of an employee keying a handheld radio (to talk) and when he did the pump for the dry fire system started running. I am going up there soon to check this out but........thoughts anyone? All I can add right now is that we do have repeaters on our radio system and from a print it appears there is possibly a radio charging station on "a" circuit involved with the fire stuff --which if true seems like a big NO. Appreciate you guys.

Okay, this is a really interesting and potentially dangerous situation. Here's a breakdown of possible causes, things to investigate, and some strong recommendations

Possible Causes (Ordered from Most Likely to Least Likely):

1. RF Interference/EMI (Electromagnetic Interference)

This is the most likely culprit. The radio frequency (RF) energy from the handheld radio is being picked up by a component in the fire suppression system and is being misinterpreted as a signal to activate the pump. This is especially likely if: The radio is transmitting near the fire suppression system control panel or any of its wiring. The fire suppression system has inadequate shielding. The wiring is poorly shielded or runs in parallel with other electrical wiring. There's a ground loop or other grounding issue.2.

Shared Neutral or Grounding Issues

If the radio charger and fire suppression system are on the same circuit (especially the same neutral), the current draw of the radio charging while transmitting could be causing voltage fluctuations that are triggering the fire system. Poor grounding in general can make systems more susceptible to RF interference. A shared ground can act as an antenna.3.

Faulty Wiring/Short Circuit

There could be a damaged wire somewhere that's causing a short circuit. The act of keying the radio might be providing just enough of a voltage spike to trigger the short. This is less likely if the issue is consistent. This is less likely, but should be ruled out.4.

Logic/Control Circuit Malfunction

A component in the fire suppression system's control logic (PLC, relay, etc.) could be failing and being triggered by the electrical noise generated when the radio transmits. This is less common, but definitely possible.5.

Repeater Interaction (Highly Unlikely, but Consider)

While very unlikely, the repeater system somehow creating a feedback loop in the fire suppression system. This would require some very unusual and poorly designed setup. If the repeater antenna is located near the fire suppression equipment, it could increase the chance of EMI.6.

Deliberate Wiring (Very Unlikely, but Rule It Out)

Someone intentionally wired the radio system to the fire suppression system. This would be incredibly negligent and dangerous, but it needs to be considered and ruled out.

Things to Investigate IMMEDIATELY


Confirm the Shared Circuit

VERIFY if the radio charger is indeed on a circuit that also feeds the fire suppression system. This is the FIRST thing to check. If it is,

REMOVE the radio charger from that circuit immediately!
Plug it into a completely separate circuit.2. Observe and Document

Repeat the test multiple times. Note the exact sequence of events. Does it happen every time? Does it happen with other radios? Note the distance between the radio and the fire suppression control panel or any components of the fire suppression system when the pump activates. Does the distance matter? Try different radios if available. Does the same thing happen with all radios? Document the frequency and wattage of the handheld radio.3.

Wiring Inspection

Carefully inspect all wiring associated with the fire suppression system and the radio charger circuit. Look for damaged insulation, loose connections, and improper grounding. Check for proper shielding of the wiring. Trace the wiring paths. Are they running close together, particularly in parallel?4.

Grounding

Verify that the fire suppression system is properly grounded according to code and manufacturer's specifications. Check for ground loops. Use a multimeter to measure the voltage between different ground points. Ideally, it should be zero.5.

Shielding

Examine the fire suppression system's control panel for proper shielding. Are all access panels securely fastened?6.

Test WITHOUT Repeater (If Possible)

If possible, try keying the radio without going through the repeater. See if the problem persists. This helps isolate whether the repeater is somehow involved.

Strong Recommendations



PRIORITY #1: Disconnect the Radio Charger (if on the same circuit).
As mentioned above, move the radio charging station to a different circuit completely and reassess. SAFETY FIRST



Immediately notify the fire marshal and your insurance carrier.
This is a serious safety issue and needs to be addressed by qualified professionals. Do NOT try to "fix" this yourself unless you are a qualified electrician and fire suppression system technician. Engage Professionals

This is NOT a DIY situation. You need to bring in:


A qualified electrician

To check the wiring, grounding, and electrical system.

A qualified fire suppression system technician

To inspect the system for faults and ensure proper operation. This person will know how the system is designed to respond to electrical conditions.


Possibly an RF engineer

If EMI is suspected, an RF engineer can help diagnose the source of the interference and recommend solutions.

Emergency Shutdown

Know how to manually shut down the fire suppression system in an emergency. Make sure everyone in the area knows this as well.


Review System Documentation

Get the installation and maintenance manuals for the fire suppression system. These will provide valuable information about wiring requirements, grounding, and troubleshooting.

Why this is Dangerous



Unnecessary Discharge

The fire suppression system could discharge accidentally, causing property damage, downtime, and potential injury.


System Failure in a Real Fire

If the system is malfunctioning, it might not work correctly in a real fire.*

False Alarms

Unexplained activation of a fire suppression system could trigger false alarms, leading to unnecessary evacuations and emergency responses.

In summary, this is a complex issue that requires careful investigation and professional assistance. Prioritize safety, gather as much information as possible, and bring in the right experts to diagnose and fix the problem.
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