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Topic: VE Options

User: Alwayslearningelec, Location: NJ

Asked on: Friday, February 14, 2025 at 10:05 pm EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 8:42 am EST

Question: Hello. Looking for value engineering options as we went in very tight.Have a 2 story warehouse job that is A LOT of 3/4" and 1" EMT & RGS. We are allowed to put conduit in deck/slab.Would it make sense to place any conduit in the slab?

Okay, let's analyze the potential value engineering options for your warehouse project, specifically focusing on the idea of embedding conduit in the slab/deck. We'll break down the pros, cons, and considerations.

Analysis of Embedding Conduit in Slab/DeckPotential Advantages (Value Engineering Benefits)



Reduced Material Costs

Potentially, you could reduce the total length of conduit required by taking more direct routes within the slab. This
might save on conduit itself, couplings, and supports. This is especially true if you have a large expanse with many points that need to be fed power/data/control from a central source.

Reduced Labor Costs

Potentially. If embedding in the slab allows for quicker, simpler runs, you might save on labor hours. This is very dependent on the complexity of the layout and the preparation required. Fewer supports to install also translates to labor savings.

Aesthetics

If aesthetics are a factor (even in a warehouse, sometimes they are for client perception), embedding the conduit eliminates visible conduit runs on walls and ceilings. This can make for a cleaner, more modern look.


Protection

The concrete provides physical protection against damage, impact, and corrosion. RGS would typically be used where a level of protection is desired.

Space Savings

Frees up space above for other utilities, lighting, or storage.


Improved Layout Flexibility

Embedding conduit early allows for easier future modifications or additions without having to run new exposed conduit.

Potential Disadvantages and Considerations



Reduced Flexibility for Future Changes/Additions

Once the concrete is poured, modifying or adding new circuits becomes significantly more difficult and expensive. This is a
major concern for a warehouse, where needs often change over time. Think very carefully about future-proofing. Consider empty conduits or spare capacity.

Increased Risk of Damage During Construction

Conduit embedded in the slab is vulnerable to damage from other trades (e.g., rebar placement, concrete pouring equipment, heavy equipment). Proper protection and coordination are critical. RGS would provide a degree of protection but may not be worth the cost.

Potential for Condensation/Moisture Issues

Conduit in a slab can be subject to condensation, especially if the slab is not properly insulated or if there are significant temperature differences. This can lead to corrosion and electrical problems.


Code Compliance

NEC (National Electrical Code) has specific requirements for conduit embedded in concrete. You must ensure compliance with:

Type of Conduit Allowed

Generally, rigid metal conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), and rigid nonmetallic conduit (PVC) are permitted. EMT
can be used if encased in at least 2 inches of concrete. Carefully check your local amendments. Your mention of "RGS" suggests you are already considering rigid conduit for protection, which is good.

Minimum Cover

There are minimum concrete cover requirements for embedded conduit to provide adequate protection.

Expansion and Contraction

Concrete expands and contracts with temperature changes. You need to consider expansion joints in long runs of conduit to prevent damage.


Grounding

Proper grounding and bonding of the conduit system are essential.

Difficulty in Locating and Repairing Faults

If a fault occurs in an embedded conduit, it can be very difficult to locate and repair without significant disruption to the slab.


Increased Engineering and Design Complexity

Requires careful planning and coordination with the structural engineer to ensure that the conduit placement does not compromise the structural integrity of the slab.

Potential for Concrete Cracking

Poorly placed conduit can create stress points in the concrete and lead to cracking.


Cost of Preparation and Securing

Accurately laying out, supporting, and securing the conduit before the pour is labor-intensive and can be more expensive than you anticipate.

Type of Deck
: Consider the type of deck that you have. A composite deck with rebar will require special preparation.

Recommendations and Next Steps


Detailed Cost Analysis

Perform a thorough cost analysis comparing the cost of embedded conduit versus traditional exposed conduit runs. Consider
all factors, including materials, labor, engineering, potential rework, and the cost of future modifications. Don't just look at the initial cost; factor in the lifecycle cost.2.

Review Plans with Structural Engineer

Consult with the structural engineer to determine acceptable locations for conduit within the slab without compromising structural integrity. Get written approval.3.

Careful Layout and Documentation

Create detailed as-built drawings of the embedded conduit locations
before the concrete is poured. Use GPS coordinates or other precise methods to document the location.4.

Choose the Right Conduit Type

Given your mention of RGS, consider it for runs where physical protection is paramount. Consider the cost differences between RGS, IMC, and suitable PVC.
Be certain about code compliance for the conduit type and embedment depth.5.

Consider Sleeves for Future Flexibility

In areas where you anticipate future changes, consider installing empty sleeves (larger diameter PVC conduit) in the slab to allow for future wiring additions without having to break concrete.6.

Proper Grounding and Bonding

Ensure that the conduit system is properly grounded and bonded to meet NEC requirements.7.

Communication and Coordination

Maintain clear communication and coordination between the electrical contractor, the concrete contractor, and other trades to minimize the risk of damage during construction.8.

Consider Alternatives to RGS

RGS is usually expensive. If protection is needed, but not against physical damage from above, consider using EMT within a trench or tray system within the slab.

Decision-Making Framework



High-Density Runs

Embedding might be most beneficial in areas where you have a high density of conduit runs, making surface mounting cumbersome.

Long, Straight Runs

Long, straight runs across open areas are good candidates for embedding,
if you are confident in the future needs.

Areas with High Traffic

Areas with heavy forklift traffic or other potential sources of physical damage are good candidates for RGS in the slab.

Areas Prone to Moisture

Carefully consider conduit selection and sealing to prevent moisture ingress.


Areas Where Future Changes Are Unlikely

If you are certain that the electrical layout will not change in the future, embedding conduit is a more viable option.

Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to embed conduit in the slab is a complex one that depends on the specific details of your project. A careful cost-benefit analysis, consideration of code requirements, and coordination with the structural engineer are essential.
Good luck! Flag for review

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