User: CCWest1, Location: New York
Asked on: Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 5:54 pm EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 8:44 am EST
Question: Guys,I need your help in reviewing my project and especially my service calculations. I am attaching 7 files to give you a broad view of what I'm trying to accomplish. Graphics are sometimes better than words. I have a piece of property where I will be putting 2 manufactured/mobile homes and a detached garage. Also a generator which will be for 1 home and the garage. I want to bring in two residential 200A services. My POCO is NYSEG, and I've been following their Spec Book. A bit uncertain if they will allow me to put in two services, though from what I have determined I think they'll allow it. We'll see. If there is anything you see here that needs to be changed please let me know. I am kind of scratching my head on the calcs, so let me know. Thanks!
Okay, I've reviewed the files you attached. Here's a breakdown of my observations, concerns, and recommendations
General Impressions:
Comprehensive
You've done a good job gathering the necessary information and presenting a clear overview of the project. The diagrams and spec sheets are helpful.
Well-Organized
The documentation is relatively organized, which makes it easier to follow your train of thought.
Proactive
It's smart to plan this out and get feedback before submitting to the utility and/or building inspector.
Key Areas of Review and Concern
Service Capacity & Demand Calculations
This is the most critical area.
Mobile Home 1
Your demand calculation seems reasonable, accounting for general lighting, small appliances, and fixed appliances. However:
Heating/Cooling
You've included a 5kW load for heating. Is this electric resistance heat? Or a heat pump? If it's a heat pump, the demand factor might be different (and potentially lower). Also, ensure that the heating load accounts for the
LARGEST motor load (either Heating OR A/C) as per NEC 220.50 Range/Cooktop
Be sure you are using the correct demand factors from Table 220.55 in the NEC. The standard assumption is that a standard range can be derated. If they are non-standard, review the footnotes to Table 220.55
Electric Dryer
Included at 5kW. This sounds reasonable.
Water Heater
Included at 4.5kW. This sounds reasonable.
Mobile Home 2
Similar comments to Mobile Home 1. Double check the Heating / Cooling and Range values.
Detached Garage
Lighting/Receptacles
The calculation of 3000VA seems reasonable. However, make sure this considers the load for any specific equipment that would be stored in the garage, such as a battery charger, welder, etc. These could add significant load.
Motors
The inclusion of a 2HP motor (1.5kW) is good foresight.
Generator
I believe you are planning to run the detached garage off the generator only. Be sure to have a transfer switch and ensure the garage load on the generator is not significantly greater than the load it is designed for.
Combined Service Calculations
This is where the question of TWO services comes into play.
NYSEG Approval
You must get confirmation from NYSEG that they will allow two separate services. While the NEC might permit it under certain conditions, the utility has the final say.
NEC Compliance for Multiple Services (if approved)
Ensure you are adhering to NEC Article 230 regarding multiple services. This typically requires clear separation and identification of each service. 230.2(D) "Increased Capacity." A building can have an unlimited number of services when the building's load requires it. You still have to get NYSEG to buy into this concept.
2.
Generator Sizing
Load Calculation
You need a much more detailed load calculation for the generator. You have only calculated the minimums. You'll need to define the essential loads that the generator must support during an outage. This likely includes: Lighting in essential areas (living room, kitchen, bathrooms, hallways) Refrigerator Heating system (at least a portion of it, especially if it uses electricity for controls or forced air) Sump pump (if applicable) Well pump (if applicable) Critical medical equipment (if applicable) Some receptacle outlets for charging phones and other small devices Garage (if applicable)
Generator Capacity
Once you have a realistic load calculation, add a safety margin (typically 20-25%) to determine the required generator capacity.
Fuel Type
Consider the fuel type (propane vs. natural gas vs. gasoline) based on availability, cost, and storage considerations.
Automatic Transfer Switch
Absolutely essential for a standby generator system. This ensures safe and automatic switching between utility power and generator power.
Local Codes
Check with your local building department regarding any specific generator installation requirements (e.g., setback distances, noise restrictions, permitting).3.
Wiring Methods and Grounding
Underground Service
Confirm the correct burial depth for your service conductors with both NYSEG and the NEC (typically depends on voltage and conduit type).
Grounding Electrode System
Ensure you have a proper grounding electrode system (ground rods, water pipe electrode, etc.) that complies with NEC Article 250. A single ground rod may not be sufficient; supplemental electrodes are often required.
Separation of Neutral and Ground
Absolutely critical. Neutral and ground must be bonded only at the service entrance. In subpanels (in the mobile homes and garage), the neutral and ground must be kept separate.4.
Manufactured/Mobile Home Specifics
NEC Article 550
Pay close attention to NEC Article 550, which covers the specific requirements for electrical installations in manufactured homes.
Feeder Calculations
Double-check your feeder calculations to ensure that the conductors are adequately sized for the calculated demand load, including voltage drop considerations.
Disconnecting Means
Each mobile home must have a readily accessible disconnecting means located within or immediately adjacent to the unit.5.
NYSEG Service Requirements
Spec Book Adherence
You're on the right track by following the NYSEG spec book. However, confirm all requirements directly with NYSEG before proceeding. They may have specific requirements for metering, service entrance equipment, grounding, and other aspects of the installation.
Point of Connection
Clarify the exact location of the point of connection with NYSEG. This will affect your service lateral design.
Metering
Confirm the metering requirements with NYSEG. Will they provide meters for each service, or will you need to provide a meter enclosure?
Specific Recommendations
Contact NYSEG Immediately
Discuss your project with a NYSEG engineer or service representative. Get their approval for the two-service approach and clarify all their specific requirements. This is the most important step.
Refine Load Calculations
Develop more detailed load calculations for the generator and for each mobile home, paying close attention to the specific appliances and equipment that will be installed. Include safety margins.
Consult with a Licensed Electrician
I strongly recommend consulting with a licensed electrician who is familiar with the NEC and NYSEG requirements. They can review your plans, perform the necessary calculations, and ensure that the installation is safe and code-compliant. A licensed electrician is also required to pull the permit and sign off on the project in most jurisdictions.
Review NEC Articles
Familiarize yourself with the relevant articles of the NEC, particularly Articles 220 (Load Calculations), 230 (Services), 250 (Grounding and Bonding), 550 (Manufactured Homes), and 702 (Optional Standby Systems).
In Summary
Your project plan shows good initiative. The key is to get official approval from NYSEG for your two-service approach and to refine your load calculations for the generator and mobile homes. Working with a licensed electrician is highly recommended to ensure code compliance and safety. Good luck!
Disclaimer: This review is for informational purposes only and should not be considered a substitute for the guidance of a qualified electrician or engineer. Flag for review