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Topic: House woes

User: RoyB, Location: Chicago

Asked on: Monday, February 24, 2025 at 1:10 pm EST
Answered on: Thursday, March 6, 2025 at 9:00 am EST

Question: Hey all, looking for some input on some weird things going on at my house. I am an electrical contractor/owner by trade, and was in the field for 15 years prior. I think I am pretty good at troubleshooting but some of the stuff going on at my house have me stumped.Basics:House built in 1979House has 200A ServiceWhole house generator (20kw), service feeds through transfer switch. All connections are tight.Service Feeder is approx 325' ( I need to confirm wire size)Most of the house is on Lutron Radio Ra3 and LED lamps. If LED lamps are used, I set to reverse phase.We moved in a little over a year ago and I have rewired 80% of the house.Wiring is in conduit system.Troubles:Some lights flicker/dim when the Washing machine runs. They dim with every rotation of the tub/agitator. The can lights seem OK for the most part (Soraa lamps), but the Chandelier and Island pendants are affect (screw in lamps). The entire kitchen lighting is on a dedicated circuit.All lights dim when the well pump kicks on. Not sure if this is normal, I've never had a well pump before. 15/2 circuit.Get a slight flicker in kitchen cans when they are dimmed low and dryer is running (240v).Lights would dim when AC's would go on. I put on Soft Starts and that pretty much eliminated that issue. Haven't ran AC since Octoberish so I am not positive now since it's been 4 months and some of the flickering was cause by other issues.Some areas I haven't rewired yet, the lights flicker or dim down/up.I noticed most of the issues in the kitchen when we are there for dinner. Sometimes oven is on (electric) but I don't think that's the problem since it also happens when the oven is off. I have the whole kitchen on a 70a or 80a subpanel since I ran out of space in main panel.Undercabinet lights would dim if there were loads on the same phase elsewhere in the house. This was pretty much fixed by running a dedicated lighting circuit. It seemed to dim on 1 phase more than another, so I moved to another phase. The house is pretty balanced this so makes no sense to me.I need to confirm feeder size, but would an undersized feeder be causing all these issues? For the distance, I think it should be around 250-300mcm. In real world, I don't think I am ever drawing over 100a when these issues arise (dryer, oven, etc).There's no water ground because there's no water service. Not sure if there's a ground at the meter, I need to confirm. There's no ground next to the meter (it's now in a mud room), but there may be one in the meter. I thought there was a ground wire in the panel , but now that I am thinking about it, it could have been for one of the other sub panels.MOST of these issues presented themselves after changing to LED lamps. This makes me think maybe there's a polarity issue somewhere. 98% of the fixtures have been changed in the house. Some of them were wired backwards. After re-wiring, it fixed most of the issues, but some still persist.Tonight I'll check incoming conductor size and see if I can figure out the grounding. In the mean time, is there something obvious I am missing?

Okay, this is a complex situation, but let's break it down, focusing on the most likely culprits and suggesting a systematic approach. Your experience is invaluable here, but even experienced electricians can sometimes miss the forest for the trees.

Immediate Priorities (Tonight)


Incoming Conductor Size

This is critical. You suspect undersized conductors, and that's a very plausible cause. Measure the diameter and insulation thickness to estimate the wire gauge, or if possible, directly check any markings on the conductor sheathing. A 325' run absolutely needs careful consideration for voltage drop. For 200A service, you are probably looking at 4/0 copper or 250 mcm aluminum. If smaller, you've likely found a significant part of the problem.2.

Grounding (Most Important)

You must confirm your grounding situation. The absence of a water pipe ground is fine if you have other approved grounding methods (ground rods, ground ring, concrete encased electrode - "ufer ground"). Here's what to check, and in this order:

Meter Ground

Is there a grounding conductor from the meter to a grounding electrode? Look closely where the service enters the house. The utility company
may provide the grounding through the neutral (although this is less common and requires checking local code).

Main Panel Ground

Is there a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) from your main panel's grounding bus to a grounding electrode (rod, ring, concrete encased electrode)? It must be there. Size it according to code based on your service entrance conductor size.

Bonding Jumper

Is the neutral bus in your main panel properly bonded to the panel enclosure and the grounding bus? This is crucial for fault current path.3.

Voltage Readings



Static Voltage

Measure the voltage at your main panel's service entrance terminals with no significant loads running. Check both legs (L1-Neutral, L2-Neutral, and L1-L2). This gives you a baseline.

Voltage Drop Under Load

Measure the voltage at the main panel's service entrance terminals
while the washing machine, well pump, and oven are running simultaneously. Note the voltage on each leg. This will tell you exactly how much voltage drop you're experiencing.

Voltage at Remote Outlets

Measure voltage at outlets in the kitchen and other areas experiencing dimming, both under no load and with heavy loads.

Analysis and Possible Causes

Assuming you confirm correct feeder size and proper grounding and bonding:1.

Voltage Drop

Given the distance, it's still highly likely you're seeing significant voltage drop, even with appropriately sized conductors. This is especially exacerbated by motor loads (washer, well pump, AC) which have high inrush currents.2.

Neutral Issues

A loose neutral connection anywhere in the system can wreak havoc, creating voltage imbalances.

Service Neutral

Check the neutral connection at the meter, main panel, and the neutral connection at the service entrance. A loose or corroded connection can cause flickering and dimming as loads change on each leg.


Subpanel Neutral

Verify the neutral connection in your kitchen subpanel.

Branch Circuit Neutrals

While less likely, a loose neutral on a specific branch circuit could cause issues with lights on that circuit.3.

Harmonics

LEDs, especially dimmed ones, can generate harmonics. While RadioRA 3 is generally good at handling this, it's still a possibility.4.

Compatibility Issues

While Lutron RadioRA 3 is generally excellent, there
can be compatibility issues with specific LED lamps, especially when dimmed.

Minimum Load Requirements

Some dimmers require a minimum load to operate correctly. Check the Lutron specifications.

Forward vs. Reverse Phase

You're using reverse phase (ELV) dimming for LEDs, which is usually the correct choice. However, some LEDs
might work better with forward phase (MLV) dimming. It's worth experimenting with one or two lamps to see if it makes a difference.

LED Lamp Quality

Cheaper LED lamps are more prone to flickering and compatibility issues. Soraa lamps are excellent, but the screw-in lamps might be the problem.5.

Well Pump

The well pump on a 15A circuit seems undersized. The starting amps are probably high and it's dropping the voltage in the whole house. If it's a 1/2 hp pump or higher, it should be on a 20A circuit.

Troubleshooting Steps


Grounding Correction

If you find grounding issues, fix them immediately. This is a safety issue and can directly cause flickering and dimming.2.

Voltage Drop Mitigation (If Necessary)

If the voltage drop is excessive even with correctly sized conductors, consider:

Larger Conductors

It's expensive, but upgrading the service entrance conductors might be necessary.


Dedicated Circuits

Run more dedicated circuits for high-demand appliances like the well pump and washing machine.3.

Neutral Inspection and Tightening

Systematically check and tighten all neutral connections, starting at the service entrance and working your way down to branch circuits. Use a torque screwdriver to ensure proper tightness.4.

LED Compatibility Testing



Isolate the Problem

Disconnect the chandelier and island pendant lighting in the kitchen (remove the lamps). See if the dimming issues with the can lights persist. This will help determine if the screw-in lamps are the source.


Lamp Replacement

Replace the screw-in lamps with higher-quality, known-compatible LED lamps. Test thoroughly.

Dimmer Settings

Experiment with different dimmer settings and, as a last resort, try forward phase dimming with a
few of the lamps to see if it helps.5.

Load Balancing

While you've tried to balance the load, re-evaluate. Use a clamp meter to measure the current on each leg of the service entrance under typical operating conditions.6.

Circuit Mapping and Labeling

Ensure every circuit is clearly labeled. This makes troubleshooting much easier.7.

Monitor Over Time

After making changes, monitor the system for a week or two to see if the issues are resolved or if new problems emerge.8.

Consult with Utility

If you suspect issues with the utility's service (e.g., poor grounding at the transformer), contact them.

Important Notes



Safety First

Always de-energize circuits before working on them. Double-check that the power is off.

Document Everything

Keep detailed notes of your troubleshooting steps, measurements, and any changes you make.


Don't Overlook the Obvious:
Sometimes the simplest solution is the correct one.This is a process of elimination and careful analysis. Start with the basics (conductor size, grounding), then move to the more subtle issues. Good luck, and let me know what you find tonight! I'm here to help you work through this. Flag for review

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