User: milmat1, Location: Siler City, NC USA
Asked on: Monday, March 17, 2025 at 3:44 pm EDT
Answered on: Monday, March 17, 2025 at 3:50 pm EDT
Question: I have a single 150HP VFD driving two 75hp motors. I have individual thermal overloads for each motor. The motor leads from the OL's to each motor are what I'm questioning.According to 430.22 I need to size the conductors for 125% of 96 amps (From table 430.250) or 120 Amps. Which would indicate I need an 1 AWG motor conductor, correct ?The motor itself has size 4 AWG leads coming out of the motor. Is this normal to see this large difference in conductor sizes ?BTW the name tag FLA is 88.5AThanks for any input..
You've highlighted a common point of confusion when dealing with motors and VFDs. Let's break it down
Yes, your calculation is correct for the conductors from the overload relays to the motors based on 430.22 and 430.
250.
You correctly identified the 75 HP motor FLA from Table 430.250 (96 amps). You correctly applied the 125% factor (96 amps 1.25 = 120 amps). You correctly determined that 120 amps requires a 1 AWG conductor (based on typical ampacity charts like those in the NEC, assuming 75°C insulation).
Why the Discrepancy?
The reason for the difference in wire size between your calculated conductor size (1 AWG) and the motor's factory leads (4 AWG) comes down to where those conductors are installed and what code articles apply. Factory Motor Leads
The 4 AWG leads coming directly from the motor winding termination points
are not subject to NEC 430.22 requirements. They are considered part of the motor's internal construction and are sized by the motor manufacturer to withstand the motor's FLA plus a safety factor. They have a specific thermal rating and construction that allows them to carry that current within the motor's enclosure. Conductors from Overload to Motor
These conductors are subject to NEC 430.22. The code requires you to size these conductors at 125% of the motor's full-load current (FLA) from Table 430.250 or the motor nameplate FLA, whichever is greater. The purpose of this requirement is to provide adequate capacity for starting currents and short-term overloads, and to reduce voltage drop in the feeder circuit, which can damage the motor.
Key Considerations and Explanations1. Code Compliance vs. Engineering Optimization
Motor manufacturers optimize the internal wiring based on specific insulation types, motor cooling characteristics, and duty cycles. The NEC provides a minimum safety standard for external wiring, intended to protect the motor and the overall electrical system.2.
Starting Current
Motors draw significantly higher current during starting (locked rotor current). While the motor's internal leads are designed to handle this briefly, the external conductors need to be sized to accommodate this in addition to the normal running current.3.
Thermal Considerations
The NEC's sizing requirements account for the potential for heat build-up in the conductors. Larger conductors have lower resistance, which reduces heat generation.4.
Voltage Drop
Undersized conductors can cause excessive voltage drop, especially during motor starting. This can reduce motor torque and efficiency, and in extreme cases, damage the motor.5.
Nameplate vs. Table Value
If the motor's nameplate FLA (88.5A) is higher than the value from Table 430.250 (96A), you must use the nameplate value for your calculations. In this specific case, 125% of 88.5 is 110.625A. You could use a #2 AWG if your termination is rated to 75 deg C.
Summary
It is perfectly normal to see a difference in size between the motor's internal leads and the conductors you install from the overload relays to the motor connection box. You are following the correct NEC procedure for sizing the external conductors. Adhering to these codes ensures that your installation meets minimum safety standards and provides adequate performance and protection for the motor.
Important Reminders
Consult the NEC
Always refer to the latest edition of the NEC for the most up-to-date requirements.
Local Codes
Be sure to follow any local electrical codes that may be more stringent than the NEC.
Qualified Electrician
When in doubt, consult with a qualified and licensed electrician. They can assess your specific situation and ensure a safe and code-compliant installation.
VFD Considerations
Since you are using a VFD, ensure that the motor and cable are rated for VFD applications (e.g., inverter-duty motor, shielded cable to minimize harmonic interference). The VFD manual should provide specific cable recommendations.*
Derating: Consider derating the conductor ampacity if the ambient temperature is high, or if multiple conductors are bundled together.By carefully considering these factors, you can ensure that your motor installation is both safe and efficient. Flag for review