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Topic: Non UL listed 'stand-alone' systems

User: tortuga, Location: Oregon

Asked on: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 11:43 am EDT
Answered on: Tuesday, March 25, 2025 at 11:43 am EDT

Question: We're getting more and more of these requests, smoe are harder to ignore its usually a long time customer has been sold a complete solar system and has a pile of parts, panels, inverter, charge controller, batteries. These come in various forms the are sold all over the internet, the components appear to be for the marine and or RV market, typically no UL labels or not the right label.Some systems are 'all in one' and you just plug in everything.These systems are probably less than 1kw but I have seen installs up to 4kw.I saw one recently and the battery looked like a bomb you'd see on a tv show.I used to refer people to a solar guy that did 'off grid', he just gets annoyed with it and explains to people you need to spend like 20k for a real system, when they just got the 'same thing' for 2k.For a detached structure like a barn with no other power source, I could see treating these just like someone wanting to power their barn or shed from a portable generator, I'd wire a generator 'inlet' on the structure, put in a small panel, grounding system etc. Then put the 'stand alone system' on a trailer or skid and connect it via a standard generator cord.I get the appeal, especially in rural areas, you can buy one of these for under the cost of running a long feeder.I have seen some other systems that were really sophisticated and intending to integrate with a on grid home running as zero export grid interactive others have an ATS,youtube is full of videos of people showing these off.What do you all see this in other parts of the country and how do you handle these?

You've hit on a common and growing issue. The proliferation of cheap, often uncertified, solar systems sold online is creating headaches for electricians and inspectors. Here's a breakdown of the issues, considerations, and potential solutions, along with observations from across the industry

The Problem:
Safety Concerns

The biggest risk is safety. These systems often lack proper safety features, are improperly sized, and are not UL listed for their intended application (if listed at all). Batteries can be particularly dangerous. They can overcharge, overheat, and even explode, as you noted. Wiring may be undersized or improperly insulated.


Code Compliance

Most of these systems don't meet local electrical codes. Lack of proper grounding, overcurrent protection, disconnects, and approved wiring methods are common. Even systems claiming to be code-compliant often are not when scrutinized by a qualified inspector.

Performance Issues

Many of these systems are inefficient and don't perform as advertised. Customers are often disappointed with the actual power output and lifespan of the components.


Grid Interaction Problems

Systems intended to integrate with the grid, especially zero-export setups, can be particularly problematic. Without proper controls and certification, they can damage the grid or create safety hazards for utility workers.

Customer Expectations

Customers often have unrealistic expectations about the capabilities of these systems and the amount of energy they can generate. They are drawn in by the low price tag but don't understand the limitations and potential risks.


Liability

As an electrician, touching these systems carries significant liability. If something goes wrong, you could be held responsible if you altered or approved the system.

Common Scenarios & Approaches


Detached Structures (Barns, Sheds, etc.)



Your Generator Inlet Idea

This is a pragmatic approach. Treating the solar system as a portable generator
with clear labeling and disconnects offers a degree of control and safety. You can wire the building to code with a generator inlet and a small subpanel, but make it very clear that the solar system itself is not inspected or warrantied by you, and the customer assumes all responsibility for its safe operation.

Documentation is Key

Document everything meticulously. Have the customer sign a waiver acknowledging the uncertified nature of the solar system and their responsibility for it.

Minimum Requirements

Even in this scenario, insist on a properly sized grounding electrode system (ground rod), a main disconnect, and appropriate surge protection on the AC side.


Consider the load

Even for a detached structure it needs to be clear what the structure will be used for. It's a big difference between a light and a couple of outlets for charging batteries for tools and a grow operation.2.

Grid-Tied or Grid-Interactive Systems



Steer Clear (Generally)

This is where the most risk lies. It's usually best to avoid working on these systems entirely. The potential for grid backfeed problems, safety issues for utility workers, and overall code violations is too high.


If You Must

If you absolutely must work on such a system (e.g., for a long-standing customer and after careful consideration), treat it as if you were building a new, code-compliant system from scratch. That likely means replacing most or all of the components with certified equipment.

Permitting and Inspection

Make sure a permit is obtained and the system is inspected by the local authority. This will help ensure that the system meets code requirements.


Liability Insurance

Verify your liability insurance covers work on customer-supplied, uncertified systems. Many policies exclude this type of work.3.

"All-in-One" Systems



Be Extremely Cautious

These systems are often the worst offenders regarding safety and code compliance. The integration may be poorly designed, and the components may be of questionable quality.


Documentation is Even More Important

Get full specifications and manuals for every component. Look for legitimate UL listings (or equivalent) for each individual component as well as the complete system. If they're not available, walk away.

How Other Electricians Are Handling This (Anecdotes)



"We Just Say No"

Many electricians are simply refusing to work on these systems. The liability and potential headaches outweigh the financial gain.


Education is Key

Some electricians are taking the time to educate customers about the risks of these systems and the benefits of a properly designed and installed system. This can be a good way to build trust and potentially secure a future job installing a code-compliant system.

"Bring It Up to Code or We Walk"

This is a more assertive approach. Electricians will inspect the system and provide a detailed list of what needs to be done to bring it up to code. If the customer isn't willing to invest in the necessary upgrades, the electrician refuses to proceed.


Partnerships

Some electricians are partnering with reputable solar installers to offer complete, code-compliant systems. This allows them to provide a quality product and avoid the risks associated with customer-supplied equipment.

Inspection Referrals

Some are referring customers to independent electrical inspectors to get a third-party assessment of the system's safety and code compliance.

Key Considerations & Recommendations



Know Your Local Codes

Familiarize yourself with your local electrical codes and any specific requirements for solar installations.

Understand UL Listings

Learn how to identify legitimate UL listings and understand what they mean. A UL listing for a component
does not guarantee that the entire system is code-compliant.

Liability Insurance

Talk to your insurance provider about your coverage for work on customer-supplied, uncertified systems.

Documentation is Paramount

Keep detailed records of everything you do, including inspections, recommendations, and customer waivers.


Prioritize Safety

Your primary responsibility is to protect yourself, your customers, and the public. If you have any doubts about the safety of a system, don't work on it.

Consider Referral Networks

Develop relationships with trusted solar installers or electrical inspectors that you can refer customers to.


Continuing Education

Stay up-to-date on the latest solar technology and code changes.

The Bottom Line:


The proliferation of cheap, uncertified solar systems presents a significant challenge for electricians. The key is to prioritize safety, understand the risks, and protect yourself from liability. While it may be tempting to take on these jobs for the money, the potential consequences can be severe. A well-informed and cautious approach is essential. Flag for review

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