User: JPMPMP, Location: WA state
Asked on: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 11:06 pm EDT
Answered on: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 at 11:29 pm EDT
Question: Hello, I’m an electrician, and this issue has been perplexing me.So I went to this old lady’s house and she has one of those old pushmatic panels. I tested voltage at the panel at the main lugs and I got 240v between phases and 120v between each hot and neutral with all of the breakers turned off.As soon as turn on one of the breakers I’ll get 220v between one of the hots and neutral, and if my memory serves me correctly like 20ish v on the other hot to neutral, still getting 240ish v between phases.When I turned that breaker off, I started turning breakers on, one by one and I was getting normal voltages (240 between phases, 120v between each hot and neutral), until I turned on like 3 breakers (each were 1p, 15a) that each distorted the voltage readings until I was getting 115v one hot to neutral and like 124v (again if my memory serves me correctly) on the other hot to neutral still getting 240ish v between hots.I know it’s probably a loose neutral (I suspect at the meter), and my question pertains to pinpointing it and the why part. How is it possible to have normal voltages between phases and then when I turn on a breaker it makes all my voltages wonky at the panel? The breaker I turned on that gave me the 220v from 1 leg to neutral and 20v the other leg to neutral at the panel was feeding kitchen and bathroom outlets. I would think if there was a loose neutral in the outlet itself that it would show at the outlet but not mess with the hot to neutral voltages at the panel. And then the other 1p - 15a breakers that progressively showed messed up readings at the panel (with the kitchen circuit turned off) perplex me as to how that’s happening.Any help in better in pin pointing, diagnosing and troubleshooting is much appreciated.Thanks in advance.
You've hit the nail on the head: this is almost certainly a loose neutral. The reason it's happening the way it is, and why it's so confusing, is due to how the load balancing changes when you add those individual circuits. Let's break it down
The Core Issue: Floating Neutral
A loose neutral creates what's often called a "floating neutral." Here's what that means: No Reference
A good neutral provides a stable, low-impedance reference back to the transformer supplying your service. It's the "zero point" for both legs of your 240V service. When the neutral is loose, this reference is compromised.
Voltage Division
Instead of a direct path back to the transformer's neutral, the current must find its way back through other loads in the house. This means the voltage will divide unevenly between the two legs based on the impedance of the loads connected to each leg.
Impedance, Not Just Amperage
It's critical to understand that impedance matters more than the amperage draw. Impedance is the total opposition to current flow, including resistance and reactance (which comes from things like motors and fluorescent light ballasts).
Why It Appears Normal With Breakers Off
When all breakers are off, you're measuring the open-circuit voltage from the transformer. There's no current flow, so the loose neutral isn't affecting the voltage readings much. You're essentially seeing the secondary voltage from the transformer before any load is applied.
How Adding Load Creates the Imbalance
Here's where the magic (or rather, the misery) happens:1. Initial Imbalance (220V/20V)
When you turned on the circuit powering the kitchen and bathroom outlets, you likely had a significantly different impedance on that leg compared to the other leg (which had no load). Let's say the kitchen and bath outlets represent a fairly low impedance (higher current draw for a given voltage). Because of the bad neutral, that leg now has a lower voltage drop (20V). The other leg has a higher voltage drop across its portion of the circuit, resulting in 220V. The "extra" voltage is appearing on the leg with less load because the loose neutral isn't allowing the current to easily return to the transformer on that side.2.
Progressive Imbalance (115V/124V)
As you turn on other breakers, you are changing the impedance on both legs. The voltage will shift up or down on each leg depending on what is connected to it. The fact that you are getting 115V/124V suggests that the overall impedance on the leg with 115V is lower than the overall impedance on the leg with 124V.
Where to Look (Prioritized) Meter Neutral
As you suspected, this is the prime suspect. The neutral connection at the meter base, especially where the neutral wire enters the meter socket, is a common failure point.
Important
Call the utility company. Do not attempt to work inside the meter base yourself unless you are specifically authorized and qualified to do so by the utility. This is dangerous and could be illegal. Request they check the neutral connection at the meter and at the transformer. Neutral at the Service Entrance
Where the neutral service entrance cable connects to the neutral bar in the Pushmatic panel. Look for corrosion, looseness, or signs of arcing.
Pushmatic Neutral Bar
Examine the neutral bar itself in the Pushmatic panel. Look for cracks, corrosion, or damage. Also, check that the grounding conductor (to ground rods, water pipe, etc.) is properly connected to the neutral bar.
First Outlet on a Circuit
While unlikely to cause voltage imbalances at the panel, carefully inspect the wiring and neutral connections at the first outlet on the problematic circuits (kitchen/bath, and the other circuits you tested). A bad connection there could contribute to the overall issue, though it's less likely to be the primary cause.
Troubleshooting Steps (After Safety First)1. Document Everything
Take detailed notes of the voltage readings with different combinations of breakers on and off. This helps you track the changes and narrow down the problem. Take photos/videos of the panel/meter to ensure you remember what you saw.2.
With the Utility's Permission, Verify the Neutral Connection at the Meter
After the utility has verified the service neutral, you can confirm that the voltage readings stabilize before touching anything else. If the problem is resolved, the utility's work was the fix.3.
Systematically Tighten Connections
With the main breaker off, go through the panel and carefully tighten all neutral connections. Use a torque screwdriver to ensure proper tightness according to the manufacturer's specifications.4.
Load Testing (If Necessary and Safe)
After carefully inspecting and tightening connections, and with the main breaker back on, use a clamp-on ammeter to measure the current on each leg of the service (each hot wire coming into the panel). The current on each leg should be reasonably balanced. A significant imbalance indicates a disproportionate load distribution, which can exacerbate the problem of a loose neutral.5.
Voltage Drop Testing
Once you get the neutral issue resolved and are getting consistent 120V readings at the panel, do a voltage drop test on the problematic circuits (the kitchen/bath outlets, and the others). This will help you identify any high-resistance connections further downstream on those circuits.
Important Safety Notes ELECTRICAL WORK IS DANGEROUS. If you're not 100% comfortable and qualified to work on electrical panels and service entrances, do not do it. Call a qualified electrician. Always turn off the main breaker before working inside the panel. Even with the breaker off, there is still voltage at the main lugs. Wear proper PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) including insulated gloves and safety glasses. Double-check everything before restoring power.
Good luck tracking down this tricky problem! The methodical approach I outlined will help you isolate the source of the loose neutral and get the old lady's electricity back to normal. Flag for review