User: WD40, Location: Philly
Asked on: Saturday, May 3, 2025 at 7:26 pm EDT
Answered on: Saturday, May 3, 2025 at 7:27 pm EDT
Question: Hey all I was asked to go thru a industrial building thats been vacant to clean up a mess and get some power on for lights as its going on the market.It has only been empty a few years but druggies and thieves have broke in and stolen lots of copperThere are burn marks in a gutter and a few disconnects where something very bad happened, so thats probably when the copper thieves left.The utility has cut the power at the primary on the pole, but they will turn it on when I say its OK to.The service is mostly OK no burn marks though they did possibly get in the MDP,or the former tenant may have removed feeders.Service is about 10 years old I'd hate to replace it as the building is for sale.Someone removed feeder breakers out of the MDP, there those 'fingers' that go up to the breakers that are gone.There are empty conduits, conduits just cut off with wire in them its a mess.I can clean all that up,I'll remove and save the fingers from the MDP,put in K/O seals;fix the gounding / bonding;Ohm out the service;I'll make sure nothing else gets energized.My question for you guys here on the safety forum is should I do any tests before having the utility energize the transformer energizing the main 800A breaker like a megger test?
Okay, this is a potentially dangerous situation. You're dealing with a vandalized electrical system that you're trying to bring back online for a sale. Safety is paramount. Here's a breakdown of what you've said, and what you absolutely need to do, with a focus on safety and code compliance.
Understanding the Scope and Risks
Copper Theft = System Compromised
Copper theft is a hallmark of serious electrical damage. Thieves don't care about safety or code. Expect anything to be wrong. Just because the MDP "looks OK" doesn't mean it is.
Burn Marks = Evidence of Failure
The burn marks are critical. They indicate a fault, overload, or short circuit happened. This means insulation has likely failed, and components are damaged.
Utility Cut-Off
The utility's action is good, but it also suggests they may have concerns. Talk to them. Specifically ask why they cut power. Their reason could inform your inspection.
Missing Breakers/Feeders
This is a huge red flag. What were those feeders for? Where did they go? This needs investigation to determine the extent of the damage.
Age of Service
10 years is not ancient, but it's not new either. If the system has been abused, its lifespan is significantly reduced.
Your Proposed Actions - Evaluation
Cleaning Up
Good. This is necessary for a proper inspection.
Saving 'Fingers'
Hold off on this for now. We need to determine if the entire MDP needs to be replaced. Saving parts might be a waste if the busbars are damaged.
K/O Seals
Important for preventing debris and rodents.
Grounding/Bonding
Absolutely essential. This is the primary safety system. Verify all grounding and bonding is intact and properly sized according to code. This includes the grounding electrode system (ground rods, water pipe connection), the equipment grounding conductors, and bonding of metallic enclosures and conduits.
Ohm Out the Service
Incomplete. While checking resistance between phases and ground is a start, it's not sufficient. You need more thorough insulation resistance testing.
Preventing Energization
Good, but temporary. This needs to be a lock-out/tag-out procedure. Do not rely solely on your knowledge; use physical locks and tags.
What You MUST Do (Beyond What You Listed): A Step-by-Step Safety Plan1. STOP and Obtain Permits and Inspections
Do not proceed without consulting with the local electrical inspector. Explain the situation. They will likely require permits and specific inspections. This is for your safety and to ensure compliance. This is a commercial installation.2.
Detailed Visual Inspection
MDP and Switchgear
Remove the covers and inspect everything. Look for: Burn marks (inside and out). Arc flash damage (melted plastic, discoloration). Corrosion. Evidence of rodent or insect infestation. Loose connections. Cracked or damaged insulators. Damaged busbars (the copper bars that distribute power). Check for proper torque on all connections.
Conduits and Wiring
Trace all the cut conduits. Where did they go? What did they power? Inspect accessible wiring for damage (nicks, cuts, brittle insulation). Check conduit supports.
Disconnects
Open all disconnects and inspect for damage.
Grounding System
Visually verify the integrity of the grounding electrode system (ground rods, connections to building steel, water pipes).3.
Insulation Resistance Testing (Megger Testing)
This is non-negotiable.
Procedure
With the main breaker OFF and LOCKED OUT, and all branch circuit breakers OFF, perform megger tests:
Phase-to-Phase
Test between each phase conductor.
Phase-to-Ground
Test between each phase conductor and the ground conductor.
Neutral-to-Ground
Test between the neutral conductor and the ground conductor.
Voltage
Use the appropriate megger voltage (typically 500V or 1000V, depending on the voltage rating of the system).
Interpretation
Record the readings. Compare them to acceptable values for your voltage and wire type. Low resistance indicates insulation breakdown. Consult a qualified electrician or engineer for interpretation. Do not guess.
Important
Isolate sections of the system if necessary to pinpoint the location of the fault.4.
Continuity Testing
Verify the continuity of the grounding system. Use a low-resistance ohmmeter to check the resistance between all metallic enclosures, conduits, and equipment back to the grounding electrode conductor.5.
Ground Fault Loop Impedance Testing
Once you've restored power to a branch circuit, test the ground fault loop impedance at various points in the circuit. This ensures that a ground fault will trip the breaker quickly.6.
Breaker Testing (If Possible/Necessary)
Ideally, have the main breaker and some representative branch circuit breakers tested by a qualified testing company. They can verify that the breakers trip at their rated current. If you don't test, replace.7.
Load Calculation
Verify the service is adequately sized for the intended use of the building. Missing feeders suggest changes in the load.8.
Documentation
Keep meticulous records of all inspections, tests, and repairs. This will be invaluable for the potential buyer and for future maintenance.9.
Professional Consultation
This is also non-negotiable. Hire a licensed and experienced electrical contractor and a qualified electrical engineer. They can: Help you interpret the test results. Develop a repair plan. Ensure compliance with the National Electrical Code (NEC) and local codes. Oversee the work. Provide a written report certifying the safety and compliance of the electrical system.
Specific Answers to Your Question
Megger Test Before Energizing
YES, ABSOLUTELY. It's the minimum you need to do before the utility energizes the transformer. However, it's just one part of a comprehensive testing and inspection process.
Important Considerations
Liability
You are taking on significant liability by working on this system. If someone gets hurt or the building burns down due to a fault in the electrical system, you could be held responsible. This is why professional consultation and documentation are crucial.*
Honesty
Be upfront with the potential buyer about the damage and repairs. Disclosing this information will build trust and protect you from future liability. Provide them with all the documentation you've gathered.
In Summary:
You're facing a complex and potentially dangerous situation. Don't cut corners. Follow a systematic approach, prioritize safety, and involve qualified professionals. The cost of doing it right is far less than the cost of an accident or a lawsuit. Flag for review