User: Relisys190, Location: USA
Asked on: Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 8:15 pm EDT
Answered on: Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 8:16 pm EDT
Question: Need help ! I have a 12 story property fed by two switch gears. A 3000 amp main and a 1600 amp secondary. Built in 1984.Backstory : we were hit hard by hurricane Helene storm surge . We had a phase to phase event in conduit between utility transformer and our gears. There are 13 parallel runs. 8 feed the 3000 and 5 feed the 1600. Two wires phased together in the 3000 side and 2 wires phased in the 1600 side. Salt water from conduits shot into each cabinet. The building was put on two generators to keep operation going.Both breakers were removed and tested the 1600 was replaced after finding voltage leak by when open and a refurnished unit like for like was purchased . We finally had all 52 feeders cables replaced by insurance 6000ft of wire. Long story short we re energized with utility just this passed weekend after 7 months on generator power.All is well with the 3000 side. This feeds my buss riser to the building, all floors and main elevators, and a 480 volt 400 amp disconnect for chiller 1.1600 feeds my ATS , high voltage 277 garage lighting distribution and garage elevators panels, 400 amp disconnect for chiller 2 and a 480 / 277 volt sub panel for chiller plant pump motors and cooling tower drives.The 1600 keeps tripping. What I thought originally was garage ground floor lighting submerged by storm surge causing issues . I have completely isolated the fused disconnect for that (HG 1/HG2 panels) by turning it off The 1600 switch remained stable for hours until I fired up chiller 2. Upon loading up. The breaker tripped again…. I’m at a loss. Are the ground fault settings too sensitive ? Is the shunt trip activating by itself ?I am not an electrician, I operate the site as the building engineer. Any help or ideas would be great !-M
Okay, M, this is a tough situation but we can break it down. It sounds like you've done a good job documenting everything. Here's a troubleshooting approach, focusing on safety and systematic problem-solving, considering your limitations as a building engineer
Key Principles:
Safety First
High voltage is dangerous. Do NOT attempt to work on the switchgear yourself. This requires qualified, licensed electricians with experience in medium voltage systems. Your role is to provide clear information to them.
Document Everything
Keep a detailed log of everything you do, observe, and every test result.
Isolate, Test, then Restore
This is the fundamental principle. Isolate the problem area, test it thoroughly, and only restore power once you are certain it is safe.
Don't Assume
Even if something seems obvious, verify it.
Troubleshooting Steps
Gather Information for the Electricians
Breaker Type
Get the manufacturer and model number of the 1600A breaker. This is crucial for understanding its protection settings.
Trip Unit Settings
Carefully record all settings on the breaker's trip unit (the protection module). Note the settings for: Long Time Pickup (Amps) Long Time Delay (Time) Short Time Pickup (Amps) Short Time Delay (Time) Instantaneous Pickup (Amps) Ground Fault Pickup (Amps) Ground Fault Delay (Time) Is there a specific curve setting for any of these functions (like an I2t curve)?
Protective Relays
Check if there are any separate protective relays associated with the 1600A breaker. If so, note their manufacturer, model, and settings.
Shunt Trip/Undervoltage Release
Determine if the breaker has a shunt trip or undervoltage release, and how they are configured.2.
Consult with Qualified Electricians
Experience is Key
Find electricians who specialize in medium voltage switchgear and have experience with the specific type of breaker installed.
Share Information
Provide them with all the information you gathered in Step 1, along with a detailed description of the events, the hurricane damage, and the replacement of the feeder cables.
Review Existing Settings
Have the electricians review the trip unit settings to ensure they are appropriate for the load and coordination with upstream/downstream protective devices. Incorrect settings can cause nuisance tripping.3.
Systematic Load Testing
(This is where the electricians will be heavily involved)
Verify Isolation
Double-check that the garage lighting (HG1/HG2) is completely isolated at the fused disconnects. Physically disconnect the load side conductors at the disconnects, if possible, for complete certainty.
Chiller 2 Testing
Megger Testing
Have the electricians perform a megger (insulation resistance) test on the chiller 2 motor windings before attempting to start it. This will check for insulation damage.
Gradual Loading
If the megger test passes, have the electricians monitor the current draw on each phase as chiller 2 starts up. A sudden spike in current, or an imbalance between phases, could indicate a problem.
Monitor Voltage and Frequency
Observe the voltage and frequency at the switchgear as chiller 2 loads up. Low voltage or unstable frequency can cause overcurrent conditions.
Isolate Other Loads
If chiller 2 is causing the tripping, try isolating the other loads on the 1600A breaker (ATS, garage elevators, pump motors/cooling tower drives) one at a time to see if any of them contribute to the problem.4.
Ground Fault Investigation
Ground Fault Location
The electricians should use ground fault tracing equipment to try to pinpoint the location of the ground fault. This may involve disconnecting loads one at a time and checking for ground faults on each circuit.
Neutral-Ground Bonding
Verify that the neutral-ground bonding is correct at the switchgear and at any downstream transformers or subpanels. Improper bonding can cause circulating ground currents.5.
Breaker Testing and Inspection
Full Breaker Testing
Even though the breaker was refurbished, it should be thoroughly tested under simulated fault conditions.
Internal Inspection
Have the electricians inspect the internal components of the breaker for signs of damage, corrosion, or contamination from the saltwater.6.
Shunt Trip/Undervoltage Release Troubleshooting
Shunt Trip
If the breaker has a shunt trip, the electricians should check the wiring to the shunt trip coil for shorts or grounds. They should also verify that the shunt trip circuit is not being inadvertently activated by any other equipment.
Undervoltage Release
Similarly, if the breaker has an undervoltage release, the electricians should check the voltage to the undervoltage release coil to ensure it is within the proper range. Low voltage to the coil can cause the breaker to trip.
Possible Causes and Considerations
Insulation Damage
Saltwater is extremely corrosive and can damage insulation on conductors and equipment, leading to ground faults or phase-to-phase faults. Even with the feeder cables replaced, there may be damage to equipment connected to the 1600A breaker.
Loose Connections
Corrosion can also cause loose connections, which can lead to overheating and voltage drops.
Ground Fault Sensitivity
The ground fault settings on the breaker may be too sensitive, causing it to trip unnecessarily. However, before increasing the ground fault settings, it's important to rule out any actual ground faults.
Harmonic Distortion
Harmonic distortion from non-linear loads (like variable frequency drives used for the chiller plant pumps and cooling tower drives) can cause the breaker to trip. The electricians should use a power quality analyzer to check for harmonic distortion.
Motor Starting Inrush
The inrush current when starting large motors (like the chiller 2 motor) can sometimes cause breakers to trip, especially if the breaker is not sized properly.
Your Role in the Process
Clear Communication
Maintain open and clear communication with the electricians. Provide them with all the information they need and ask questions to understand what they are doing and why.
Follow Instructions
Follow the electricians' instructions carefully. Do not attempt to work on the switchgear yourself unless you are qualified and authorized to do so.*
Documentation: Continue to document everything that is done, including test results, changes to settings, and any repairs that are made.By following these steps and working closely with qualified electricians, you should be able to identify and resolve the problem with the 1600A breaker. Good luck! Remember, safety is paramount. Flag for review