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Topic: Is this still a thing?

User: Electromatic, Location: Virginia

Asked on: Friday, June 6, 2025 at 8:26 am EDT
Answered on: Friday, June 6, 2025 at 8:31 am EDT

Question: I have a water tank/booster station at the top of a mountain where the water is supplied by a pump station at the bottom of the mountain. There is a mechanical pressure switch at the top to call for water. For control at the bottom to turn the pumps on, there is a Wheelock CRT-T-40 telephone relay operating at 90V, 20Hz. The wiring between the stations is a telephone line. Is there a modern way to accomplish transmitting a signal here? The stations are about a mile apart through woods. The telephone line route is probably longer.

Okay, let's break down this challenge and explore some modern solutions for replacing your aging telephone relay-based control system. You're essentially trying to remotely start/stop a pump based on the water level sensed by the pressure switch. You have a few key constraints: Distance

Approximately a mile, possibly longer along the telephone line route.


Existing Infrastructure

You have a potentially usable (but likely old) telephone line.

Power Requirements

You need to consider power availability at both the pump station (bottom) and the booster station (top).


Reliability

This system needs to be dependable for water supply.

Modernization Goal

Replacing the outdated telephone relay.Here are a few modern approaches, ranked in terms of commonality and increasing complexity/cost:

1. Licensed Radio Telemetry (Most Likely Best Bet, Especially if the Phone Line is Unreliable)



How it works

This involves installing a licensed radio telemetry system at both locations.

Components



Transmitter (at the booster station)

Connected to the pressure switch. When the pressure switch closes (indicating low water), the transmitter sends a radio signal.

Receiver (at the pump station)

Receives the signal and activates a relay to start the pump.


Antennas

Necessary for reliable signal transmission. Higher gain antennas can extend the range and improve signal quality through wooded areas.

Power

Requires power at both locations to operate the radio equipment. Battery backup might be a good idea at the booster station in case of power outages.


Advantages



Reliable

Good quality radio telemetry systems are designed for industrial use and offer high reliability. Licensed frequencies avoid interference from other devices.


Secure

More secure than unlicensed options.

Independent

No longer reliant on the aging telephone line.


Two-way communication possible

You can often get models that allow two-way communication for status updates (e.g., pump running, high pressure).

Extendable

Easily expandable for adding more sensors or control points in the future.


Disadvantages



Licensing

Requires obtaining a radio license from your local regulatory agency (e.g., the FCC in the US). This can involve some paperwork and fees.


Cost

Typically more expensive upfront than other options (but often cheaper in the long run due to reliability).

Line of sight considerations

Woods can degrade radio signal. Antenna placement and type are critical.

2. Unlicensed Radio Telemetry (Less Reliable but Simpler Setup)



How it works

Similar to licensed radio telemetry, but uses unlicensed radio frequencies (e.g., 900MHz, 2.4GHz).

Components

Similar to licensed telemetry: Transmitter, Receiver, Antennas.

Advantages



No license required

Easier and faster to deploy.

Lower cost

Typically cheaper than licensed options.


Disadvantages



Less reliable

Susceptible to interference from other devices using the same frequency. This can be a significant problem in areas with many Wi-Fi networks or other radio equipment.


Shorter range

Often has a shorter range than licensed radio systems, especially in wooded environments.

Less secure

Easier to intercept signals.


Considerations

Only consider this if the environment is relatively free of radio interference, and reliable operation is not absolutely critical. Careful antenna placement is crucial.

3. Cellular Communication



How it works

Uses the cellular network to transmit data between the booster station and the pump station.


Components



Cellular Modem/Data Logger (at the booster station)

Connected to the pressure switch. When the switch closes, the modem sends a data message to a central server or directly to the pump station.


Cellular Modem/Controller (at the pump station)

Receives the message and activates a relay to start the pump.

Cellular Data Plan

Requires a cellular data plan for each modem.


Advantages



Wide coverage

Cellular networks generally cover a wide area.


Relatively easy to deploy

No need to run new wires or install radio towers.

Disadvantages



Cellular coverage

Requires reliable cellular coverage at both locations. This can be a problem in remote areas or if the booster station is in a valley or other area with poor signal strength.

Ongoing costs

Requires monthly cellular data plan fees.


Security

Requires careful security considerations to protect against unauthorized access.

Latency

Cellular networks can introduce latency (delay) in the communication, which may not be ideal for real-time control.


Power Consumption

Cellular modems can consume significant power, which may be a concern if the booster station has limited power.

4. Fiber Optic Cable (Probably Impractical)



How it works

Running a new fiber optic cable between the two locations.


Advantages



High bandwidth

Can transmit large amounts of data.


Immune to interference

Fiber optic cable is not susceptible to electrical interference.

Disadvantages



High cost

Very expensive to install, especially over a mile through woods. Requires trenching or aerial installation.

Specialized equipment

Requires specialized equipment to terminate and connect the fiber optic cable.


Impractical

Probably not feasible for this application due to the cost and complexity.

5. Utilizing Existing Telephone Line with Modern Equipment (Least Recommended)



How it works

Attempting to repurpose the existing telephone line.


Components



Modern Tone Remote Equipment
: Devices exist that can send and receive tones over a telephone line. These tones can be interpreted by a controller at each end. Advantages



Potentially lower cost (initially)

Leverages existing wiring.


Disadvantages



Line Quality Concerns

Old telephone lines are often in poor condition, with splices, corrosion, and potential for noise and interference.


Bandwidth Limitations

Telephone lines have limited bandwidth, which can restrict the amount of data you can transmit.

Reliability Issues

This approach is highly susceptible to line problems.


Still Outdated Technology

While using "modern" tone control equipment, you're still building on a foundation of outdated technology.

Maintaining Legacy Equipment

If the telephone line needs repair, you're relying on technicians familiar with very old technology.


Unreliable
: In most instances, the condition of the phone line will make this impractical.

Recommendation

Given the details, the

Licensed Radio Telemetry
option is likely the best solution for your water tank/booster station application. It's designed for industrial environments and offers the best reliability. The initial cost is higher, but the long-term reliability and reduced maintenance costs will likely offset the initial investment.* Consider the long-term costs of maintaining a solution based on an aging telephone line.

Steps to Take


Site Survey

Conduct a site survey to assess radio signal propagation between the two locations. This will help determine the best antenna type and placement. A professional radio communication company can perform this.2.

Contact Radio Telemetry Vendors

Contact several vendors of licensed radio telemetry systems to get quotes and discuss your specific requirements.3.

Obtain a Radio License

Contact your local regulatory agency (e.g., the FCC in the US) to obtain a radio license.4.

Consider Backup Power

Implement battery backup or generator backup at the booster station to ensure continuous operation during power outages.5.

Implement Remote Monitoring

Consider integrating the system with a remote monitoring system so you can track water levels, pump status, and other critical parameters from a central location.6.

Document Everything:
Thoroughly document the system configuration, settings, and troubleshooting procedures.By implementing a modern and reliable radio telemetry system, you can improve the efficiency and reliability of your water supply system and reduce the risk of costly downtime.I hope this detailed analysis helps! Let me know if you have any more questions. Flag for review

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