User: Cribbj, Location: Montana
Asked on: Saturday, July 5, 2025 at 5:51 pm EDT
Answered on: Saturday, July 5, 2025 at 8:20 pm EDT
Question: I need some expert advice on my residential application involving a 200a service from the utility and a 22kW Generac standby generator.The house originally had a 100a service for many years, but I anticipated building a workshop so I requested an upgrade to 200a service and it was installed back around 2015 in my absence and was very straightforward, using an underground feeder and a 200a Square D meter main, with a 100a branch breaker feeding an existing ancient interior MLO Square D panel.Around 2023, the Generac gear was installed and consisted of the 22kW genset and 200a, service disconnect rated ATS.Referring to my crude SLD sketch, I am questioning the need for the Siemens distribution panel, as I believe the ATS, according to code and generally accepted industry practice provides adequate protection for the interior MLO panel, which is less than 3’ from the ATS.Also, I do not like the wiring practices used by the electrical contractor when he installed the Siemens panel. He came off the 100a breaker with #2 copper, then in the meter main panel he did inline splices and increased the conductor size to 2/0 copper to go into the MLO panel. Why?I would like to eliminate all this clap trap, remove the Siemens panel, and come off the “Load” lugs of the ATS with #2 copper and go straight into the MLO panel. FWIW the peak load of my house has never exceeded 13kW and before the 200a utility upgrade, it was being fed by a 100a service.Would this be acceptable? Thanks in advance!
Okay, let's break down your situation and address your questions and concerns regarding your residential electrical setup. Your goal is to simplify the installation, remove unnecessary components, and ensure code compliance.
Here's a step-by-step analysis
Understanding Your Setup
200A Utility Service
You have a 200A service entrance, which is good.
200A Meter Main
The Square D meter main with the 100A breaker feeding the interior panel is a bit unusual but not necessarily wrong.
22kW Generac Standby Generator
This is a substantial generator, designed to power most, if not all, of your essential loads.
200A Service-Rated ATS
This is critical. Its primary purpose is to seamlessly switch between utility power and generator power, and to provide a service disconnect for the entire house.
Siemens Distribution Panel (Questionable)
This is where your primary concern lies, and rightfully so.
Ancient MLO Square D Panel
A "Main Lug Only" (MLO) panel, meaning it doesn't have a main breaker.2.
Is the Siemens Distribution Panel Necessary? Likely Not
You are likely correct that the Siemens panel is redundant. Since your ATS is service-rated, it acts as the main service disconnect for your home. The ATS protects the downstream panel, and the panel's breakers protect individual circuits.
NEC 230.71(A) - Maximum Number of Disconnects
The NEC limits the number of service disconnects to six. Your ATS is your single service disconnect.
MLO Panel within 3' of ATS
Since your MLO panel is close to the ATS, it meets the requirement for readily accessible overcurrent protection downstream of the main service disconnect.
Conclusion: You can likely remove the Siemens panel. This simplifies the installation, reduces potential points of failure, and removes the odd wiring practices you mentioned.3. Addressing the Existing Wiring Practices #2 Copper to 2/0 Copper Splice
This is odd and likely not done correctly. The electrician likely upsized the conductors because they thought they needed to achieve the 200A rating of the ATS. However, the 100A breaker in the meter main panel limits the current, making the upsized conductors unnecessary and potentially creating a point of failure (poorly made splices).
#2 Copper from ATS to MLO Panel
As long as the 100A breaker in the meter main panel remains, and the calculated load of the MLO panel is below 100A, #2 Copper is likely sufficient. This is based on the 75C ampacity column in NEC table 310.16.
4.
Your Proposed Solution (Removing Siemens Panel)
Yes, it's likely acceptable, but with these considerations
Replace 100A breaker in meter main panel with 200A breaker This will now provide 200A protection to the feeder conductors leading to your interior panel. Replace #2 copper feeders from ATS to MLO panel with 2/0 copper. Now that the entire setup from the meter to interior panel is rated at 200A, you can remove the 100A restriction.5. Key Considerations & Steps Load Calculation
Before making any changes, perform a thorough load calculation for your entire house, including the workshop if it's built. Verify that your calculated load is below the 200A capacity of your service. This is crucial.
Conductor Sizing
Refer to NEC Table 310.16 for proper conductor sizing based on your calculated load and the termination temperature rating of the breakers and lugs.
Short-Circuit Current Rating (SCCR)
Ensure that all components (ATS, interior panel) have adequate SCCR for the available fault current at your service. Your inspector will likely check this.
Bonding and Grounding
Verify that your grounding and bonding are correct, including the grounding electrode conductor size, bonding jumpers, etc. This is crucial for safety.
Permits and Inspections
Obtain all necessary permits and schedule inspections with your local electrical inspector. Do not skip this step. They will have the final say on whether your installation meets code.
Professional Consultation
Seriously consider consulting with a different, qualified electrician to review your plan and ensure it meets code and safety requirements. Pay them for an hour or two of their time to review your plans.
ATS Load Management
Verify the ATS's load management settings. A 22kW generator has limitations.
Specific Recommendations
Load Calculation (Mandatory)
This is the foundation for everything.2.
Consult with a Qualified Electrician
Get a second opinion, especially considering the original installation's questionable practices.3.
Obtain Permits and Schedule Inspections
Absolutely necessary.4.
Document Everything
Keep detailed records of all changes, including load calculations, conductor sizes, breaker ratings, and inspection approvals.
Important Notes
NEC is a Minimum Standard
Following the NEC ensures safety but may not always be the best solution.
Local Codes Vary
Your local municipality may have amendments or requirements that differ from the national NEC.
Safety First: Electricity is dangerous. If you are not completely comfortable working with electrical systems, hire a qualified electrician.By carefully considering these factors and following the recommendations, you can likely simplify your electrical system, improve its safety, and ensure code compliance. Good luck! Flag for review